Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Removed

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Re: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Removed

Postby dirt » October 25th, 2010, 10:49 am

utabintarbo wrote:
mr_opjones wrote:Regardless of what you want to assume about this forum, the facts were the facts, people wanted it gone. Usually one day of voting is all that is given.


Not an assumption. The die was cast prior to the poll. Pardon my cynicism, but I believe the poll was only there for "cover".

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." - Josef Stalin

C'est la vie. Our glorious leaders have spoken. The protestations of the membership is rendered irrelevant. Enjoy the Brave New World of the IMBA/MMBA.


The poll was to confirm that the majority of the board users were as sick of the forum as the mods/admins were. And, since the majority of the users agree with the majority of the admins/mods, why are you still going on about this.

Fact is, the political forum was an off-topic forum that had no need to be on a MTB Advocacy board, and the majority of the people felt is was a bad influence on the overall behavior of posters on the board, and it was no longer wanted. Period.

Can the whining stop now?
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby wingzz » October 25th, 2010, 11:02 am

Bob, try google and enter in the words political forum and I'm sure you will find many places to visit to argue your political views.
also if you remember Steve offered you guys a place to have all the political discussions you wanted, but all you want to do is continue to whine about an off topic forum on politics that was removed from a mountain biking site, someone is starting to look pretty immature
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby trout_smith » October 25th, 2010, 11:44 am

As an alternative to the Political forum, I recommend the "Rants and Raves" section of your local craigsist. Heady intellectual discussion there!
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby c0nsumer » October 25th, 2010, 2:09 pm

wingzz wrote:Bob, try google and enter in the words political forum and I'm sure you will find many places to visit to argue your political views.
also if you remember Steve offered you guys a place to have all the political discussions you wanted, but all you want to do is continue to whine about an off topic forum on politics that was removed from a mountain biking site, someone is starting to look pretty immature


I will definitely entertain hosting a separate political forum unattached to mmba.org. I just need someone to step up and send me a proposal on it and be responsible for running it. This isn't just being a mod, but actually handling the day to day issues with accounts, assigning mods, designing the site style, buying the domain name, etc. We'll even link to it from here to help steer users of the old political section there to your new site.
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby utabintarbo » October 25th, 2010, 2:20 pm

c0nsumer wrote:
wingzz wrote:Bob, try google and enter in the words political forum and I'm sure you will find many places to visit to argue your political views.
also if you remember Steve offered you guys a place to have all the political discussions you wanted, but all you want to do is continue to whine about an off topic forum on politics that was removed from a mountain biking site, someone is starting to look pretty immature


I will definitely entertain hosting a separate political forum unattached to mmba.org. I just need someone to step up and send me a proposal on it and be responsible for running it. This isn't just being a mod, but actually handling the day to day issues with accounts, assigning mods, designing the site style, buying the domain name, etc. We'll even link to it from here to help steer users of the old political section there to your new site.


Ah yes, a nice little ghetto for the rabble-rousers.... You have missed the point.

BTW, what happened to [Spartan]'s post?
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby c0nsumer » October 25th, 2010, 2:29 pm

utabintarbo wrote:
c0nsumer wrote:
wingzz wrote:Bob, try google and enter in the words political forum and I'm sure you will find many places to visit to argue your political views.
also if you remember Steve offered you guys a place to have all the political discussions you wanted, but all you want to do is continue to whine about an off topic forum on politics that was removed from a mountain biking site, someone is starting to look pretty immature


I will definitely entertain hosting a separate political forum unattached to mmba.org. I just need someone to step up and send me a proposal on it and be responsible for running it. This isn't just being a mod, but actually handling the day to day issues with accounts, assigning mods, designing the site style, buying the domain name, etc. We'll even link to it from here to help steer users of the old political section there to your new site.


Ah yes, a nice little ghetto for the rabble-rousers.... You have missed the point.

BTW, what happened to [Spartan]'s post?


As I said before (in response to your same "ghetto" comment):

c0nsumer wrote:No; a place that's not under the MMBA namespace. It's only a second-class venue if it doesn't attract enough activity to make it worthwhile.


I think that you need to reassess what it is that brings you to the MMBA forum. If it's mountain biking and you're lamenting the loss of a part of the forum that you enjoyed, sorry, but that favored section of yours needed to go when viewed in the scope of the MMBA's mission. Conversations there also bled over into hostility and difficulty in other parts of the site.

If the primary focus of your visiting the MMBA forum was the political section, then you need to understand that this forum is here to serve members (and others with an interest in) the MMBA to allow discussion of cycling, advocacy, and cycling-related topics. The politics section was a nice sidebar for a while (as The Basement) still is, but as it went downhill the decision we are now discussing was made.

(I don't know what you mean about [Spartan]'s post. I don't see anything in the mod log about a post being deleted, just the topics split?)
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby inasnit » October 25th, 2010, 2:58 pm

utabintarbo wrote: You have missed the point.


What is the point, exactly?

I get your subtle implication that the mods and admins are somehow abusing their power. Your cutsie use of quotation marks around terms like leaders and management have not gone unnoticed. But here's the thing - the abuse is not one of power, but one of freedom. We have always taken the high road and let the politics section go un-moderated and that freedom has been abused to the point of no return.

It is my observation that you (and others) have turned the political section into a drug that you must hit regularly. I bet your heart pumps a little faster and your adrenaline rushes just a bit when you hit submit on a political section post. I bet your adrenaline rushes just a bit more when your post includes a subtle insult (because, you prefer the passive-agressive road, it seems). The conversations are no longer about politics and no longer just debates. They all turn into a contest of who can make who look like less of a person.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time? Really? Is your life really this empty that you can't go without bashing your friends on an internet forum? You KNOW you're not going to change anyone's mind who's engaging in these "debates", but you just keep trying. Do you know that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result?

No polls/votes/discussion were held with the general forum public when any of the existing forums were added, and therefore, no conversation really needs to be had to remove any forums. The community does not clean the house, so the community does not choose what furniture is in the house. Whether we had made up our minds to remove the forum before the poll or not really has nothing to do with anything because it really does not matter. We could have done this without the poll, but decided to see how the majority felt. It was not a ploy to cover our collective asses, as you have suggested, because we have nothing to cover for. It was a gut-check to make sure we weren't just acting on emotions, but that others agreed with what we already thought.

The decision was made, by the people who have to maintain this crap, and the work was done.

There is no reason for any justification beyond that. You choose to be here. If you don't like the (very very limited) rules, then go someplace else. Plain and simple.
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby utabintarbo » October 25th, 2010, 3:05 pm

c0nsumer wrote:I think that you need to reassess what it is that brings you to the MMBA forum. If it's mountain biking and you're lamenting the loss of a part of the forum that you enjoyed, sorry, but that favored section of yours needed to go when viewed in the scope of the MMBA's mission. Conversations there also bled over into hostility and difficulty in other parts of the site.

If the primary focus of your visiting the MMBA forum was the political section, then you need to understand that this forum is here to serve members (and others with an interest in) the MMBA to allow discussion of cycling, advocacy, and cycling-related topics. The politics section was a nice sidebar for a while (as The Basement) still is, but as it went downhill the decision we are now discussing was made.


What brought me here was the integrated "community" aspect. One could come here and discuss any number of things, as well as mountain biking. If I just wanted to post up pics of my new (or old) bike and ask for everyone to tell me how great it was, or get the fanbois all restless with a "GF vs. Specialized" thread, I'd go to MTBR. Instead, a small number of mods/admins made the decision to dis-integrate the community. The poll was beside-the-point, and engineered to allow a bunch of dis-interested people to decide the fate of something that they had no interest in. You can't build a vibrant community via censorship, even of "icky" stuff.

Whatever. I tilt at windmills. Suffice to say that the sense of community has been damaged for me, and I find this website less interesting. Think a small town after the authorities close the last bar, leaving only a feed store and church. No longer a destination.

c0nsumer wrote:(I don't know what you mean about [Spartan]'s post. I don't see anything in the mod log about a post being deleted, just the topics split?)


I just noticed it was missing. He mentioned me by name, so it stuck in the memory banks.
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby utabintarbo » October 25th, 2010, 3:07 pm

inasnit wrote:There is no reason for any justification beyond that. You choose to be here. If you don't like the (very very limited) rules, then go someplace else. Plain and simple.


Very well then.
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby mr_opjones » October 25th, 2010, 3:18 pm

utabintarbo wrote:
inasnit wrote:There is no reason for any justification beyond that. You choose to be here. If you don't like the (very very limited) rules, then go someplace else. Plain and simple.


Very well then.


Please don't threaten us like that.
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby Tom L. » October 25th, 2010, 4:02 pm

inasnit wrote:

It is my observation that you (and others) have turned the political section into a drug that you must hit regularly. I bet your heart pumps a little faster and your adrenaline rushes just a bit when you hit submit on a political section post. I bet your adrenaline rushes just a bit more when your post includes a subtle insult (because, you prefer the passive-agressive road, it seems). The conversations are no longer about politics and no longer just debates. They all turn into a contest of who can make who look like less of a person.


So we should have "just said no" to any politics discussion here? Thank you Nancy Reagan. :lol:

inasnit wrote:Don't you have anything better to do with your time? Really? Is your life really this empty that you can't go without bashing your friends on an internet forum? You KNOW you're not going to change anyone's mind who's engaging in these "debates", but you just keep trying. Do you know that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result?


OK, you were doing OK before this paragraph. Who was there trying to change minds? We were just having fun venting, expressing ourselves freely. Back to the Shiny Happy People forum now where no one ever gets angry and calls someone else names. Like that's a bad thing or something. Better to keep it all bottled up inside and just be a passive-aggressive personality taking the occasional sly dig when you can get away with it. :wink:
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby scat silvurz » October 25th, 2010, 4:20 pm

Not really sure what mass insanity possessed the Board when it was decided to place that Soviet-style farce of a Poll on the Bulletin Board.........but, it's clear that telegraphing one's punch in such a clumsy way, gives me cause to feel a bit of embarrassment for the decision makers....it makes them appear more than a bit silly.

Can't wait to see what happens next... :roll:

Anyway, now that the forum is back mainstay material like "why don't my breaks wirk?", and "I lost my innertube at ILRA", I think it will be a much more happy place....
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby dirt » October 25th, 2010, 5:00 pm

scat silvurz wrote:Not really sure what mass insanity possessed the Board when it was decided to place that Soviet-style farce of a Poll on the Bulletin Board.........but, it's clear that telegraphing one's punch in such a clumsy way, gives me cause to feel a bit of embarrassment for the decision makers....it makes them appear more than a bit silly.


Farce? So, we're liars now?

Thanks, glad to know what you really think of us. Always interesting to see what people I consider to be friends say about me when they don't get their way.
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby Buzzcat » October 25th, 2010, 5:36 pm

I predict that the evil Scraphorn will once again emerge from his hibernation, resulting in many reported sightings in the General Forum. :shock: :lol:
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Re: Discussion: The "Let's Talk Politics" Forum Has Been Rem

Postby scat silvurz » October 25th, 2010, 5:41 pm

You really are taking this entirely too personal! I can't help you if you don't know the difference between "farce" and "liar" - I never said anyone was lying - there was no lying.............The removal of the Politico BB has been discussed for years - but nobody got around to the FINAL SOLUTION. The Politico forum had absolutely NOTHING to do with mountain biking, except that mountain bikers were the primary participants, so in a way, it really is related to mountain biking - knot tying time, I digress.......That it took so long to finally disappear is quite amazing to me. But, the FARCE of that Poll is laughable, considering how easy it would have been to just pull the plug - why all the needless histrionics....? That nobody thought it would be an embarrassing waste of time, I can't imagine it didn't cross anyone's thoughts.

Gut-check? in public? eeeeesh! Who does that?
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