We need the Fight Club back

[SteveF]

MTBR shut their political forum down some time ago as well...other non-biking forums I follow also discourage or don't allow political subjects.

FWIW...

[utabintarbo]

The point is that others do, and survive.

Look, nobody forces you to confront such content if you don't want to. You are also free to simply ignore it when you do confront it. If that small effort is so onerous that you require an environment sanitized of such troubling thought, then you are doomed to eternal unhappiness on the face of this Earth. This stuff is part of life. Poking one's head in the sand will not change that.

[wingzz]

The point is that others do, and survive.

Look, nobody forces you to confront such content if you don't want to. You are also free to simply ignore it when you do confront it. If that small effort is so onerous that you require an environment sanitized of such troubling thought, then you are doomed to eternal unhappiness on the face of this Earth. This stuff is part of life. Poking one's head in the sand will not change that.

And others don't and they survive, all coins have two sides.
get over it, this site doesn't have a politics forum, if you want one go start or join an existing one.
if this really bothers you that much than run for president and then you can lead the ship.

[bergsteiger]

All who look honestly can see discussion traffic and participation is down.

honestly I notice no difference in the quantity/quality of posts in the other forums. Seems mostly the same level from my viewpoint. Maybe the basment has some dry spells but other than that not much different. All based on my observation, I have no numbers to back anything up.

edited for crap typing

[SteveF]

Is there a Tellarite in the house?

"Tellarites are a fictional species from the planet Tellar from the Star Trek television show...The Tellarites were described by Sarek in "Journey to Babel", as being argumentative, not to make a point, but simply to argue...Tellarites are ... known to be so quarrelsome that arguing is a sport on their home planet..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellarite

[utabintarbo]

Is there a Tellarite in the house?

"Tellarites are a fictional species from the planet Tellar from the Star Trek television show...The Tellarites were described by Sarek in "Journey to Babel", as being argumentative, not to make a point, but simply to argue...Tellarites are ... known to be so quarrelsome that arguing is a sport on their home planet..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tellarite

Sorry, my home planet is about 15 degrees north and about 38 degrees east of Tellar.

But I have made a Tellarite cry before.

[c0nsumer]

Maybe it's time that you took a long look at your use of this forum and figured out why you are here. If it's to engage in discussions which support trail advocacy, mountain biking, and places to ride your bikes, then maybe you should stick to supporting that side of things. If it's simply to have a place where you debate off-topic points; it's time for you to go elsewhere.

You'll not be rid of me so easily. I integrated into this community because it was a community, with all that offers (see Stumpy's post above). Part of that community was taken away. I aim to get it back. It was better without the censorship.

There's no desire to get rid of you, as you've contributed valuably to many things related to this site and the MMBA as a whole. What I am saying that if you don't like the way things are now, you are free to leave.

You need to understand why this forum exists and to respect the rules put in place to help ensure that it stays useful, accessible, and enjoyable to the bulk of its users. This forum is not here to build an all-things-go community which meets everyone's whims, particularly not when one of those whims (off-topic political debate) was seen as having a negative impact.

[utabintarbo]

There's no desire to get rid of you, as you've contributed valuably to many things related to this site and the MMBA as a whole. What I am saying that if you don't like the way things are now, you are free to leave.

I am also free to try and change them.

You need to understand why this forum exists and to respect the rules put in place to help ensure that it stays useful, accessible, and enjoyable to the bulk of its users. This forum is not here to build an all-things-go community which meets everyone's whims, particularly not when one of those whims (off-topic political debate) was seen as having a negative impact.

Let's take this statement: "seen as having a negative impact." Seen by whom? By what standard?

How is censorship helping it to stay "useful, accessible, and enjoyable to the bulk of its users"? Again, by what standard? And what about those not contained in "the bulk of its users"? Are they to be cast out or ignored?

What you are asking us to do is be OK with what YOUR whims have decided to take away from us. Not everybody is cool with that. I'm sorry if that frustrates you.

When you're married you will learn to live with frustration.

[c0nsumer]

There's no desire to get rid of you, as you've contributed valuably to many things related to this site and the MMBA as a whole. What I am saying that if you don't like the way things are now, you are free to leave.

I am also free to try and change them.

Sure. But don't be surprised if your unpleasant tact puts a wet blanket on some friendships.

You need to understand why this forum exists and to respect the rules put in place to help ensure that it stays useful, accessible, and enjoyable to the bulk of its users. This forum is not here to build an all-things-go community which meets everyone's whims, particularly not when one of those whims (off-topic political debate) was seen as having a negative impact.

Let's take this statement: "seen as having a negative impact." Seen by whom? By what standard?

How is censorship helping it to stay "useful, accessible, and enjoyable to the bulk of its users"? Again, by what standard? And what about those not contained in "the bulk of its users"? Are they to be cast out or ignored?

What you are asking us to do is be OK with what YOUR whims have decided to take away from us. Not everybody is cool with that. I'm sorry if that frustrates you.

When you're married you will learn to live with frustration.

This was not my decision alone, it was the decision of the whole of the MMBA leadership, from the president to the state board and down to lowly me, the forum/website admin. We all supported this action.

[utabintarbo]

Sure. But don't be surprised if your unpleasant tact puts a wet blanket on some friendships.

If they were so fragile as to suffer such a fate from a policy disagreement in a given context, one has to question how strong they were to begin with.

If you view any disagreement with your viewpoint as "unpleasant" and cause for such "wet blanket" treatment, you have a hard, lonely life ahead of you.

FWIW, I haven't even touched on the depths of "unpleasant" available to me.

This was not my decision alone, it was the decision of the whole of the MMBA leadership, from the president to the state board and down to lowly me, the forum/website admin. We all supported this action.

I find it odd that every board member who has commented here, or anywhere else for that matter, has mentioned that it (deletion of the Politics forum) was "discussed", but never that it was motioned for, voted on, or passed. Are there meeting minutes to that effect?

This decision, no matter who made it or how it was made, is not holy writ. Therefore it is subject to change. That's where I'm at.

[dauber76]

This was not my decision alone, it was the decision of the whole of the MMBA leadership, from the president to the state board and down to lowly me, the forum/website admin. We all supported this action.

I find it odd that every board member who has commented here, or anywhere else for that matter, has mentioned that it (deletion of the Politics forum) was "discussed", but never that it was motioned for, voted on, or passed. Are there meeting minutes to that effect?

This decision, no matter who made it or how it was made, is not holy writ. Therefore it is subject to change. That's where I'm at.

As I said before, it was discussed. No vote was needed.

FYI, I was one of the people who didn't want to forum to be deleted. However after talking with other board members and forum moderators, it became clear (for reasons you've been told countless times) that the appropriate decision was to remove the forum.

Yes, this decision can be changed back, but unless some new evidence comes to light, or there is a significant turnover of state board members and officials, expect that decision to stay the same.

Uta, if the politics forum was that important and necessary for so many people, how come you are pretty much the only one who is still questioning the decision?

[FrankenFuel95]

Uta, if the politics forum was that important and necessary for so many people, how come you are pretty much the only one who is still questioning the decision?

Maybe instead of coming into this thread to bang their heads against the wall, the others will just be voting with their dollars.

...and that goes for the other board decision too, IMBA.

[NovaraAspen]

stumps
as i have said before (twice EVER):
You are right
maybe we didn't agree in the poli forum, but we learned from each others views and became a more educated group.
and riding slow with Uta is a lot more fun if we can continue the discussion that begun during my/our lunchtime posts.

this missing forum was a great 'local' place to discuss local applications of all the worlds problems.
did we solve any? a very few
did we create any? well, we did kinda call BS on a few folks (wassup shoe?), but i don't recall anything drastic enough to require more than a typed warning.
now the typed warnings are everywhere, even when folks just try to say how an ex-politician's 29er...

<oops>

sorry i can't say any more

Well said Whitey. I am pre-occupied with a newborn right now and don't have a lot of time to contribute to the discussion, but you summed it up for me above as well.

[dirt]

Uta, if the politics forum was that important and necessary for so many people, how come you are pretty much the only one who is still questioning the decision?

Maybe instead of coming into this thread to bang their heads against the wall, the others will just be voting with their dollars.

...and that goes for the other board decision too, IMBA.

I ran to do what I feel was best, and I was elected because the majority trust my judgement. If the majority feel otherwise, they'll elect someone who represents their views.

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time. Thus, not everyone will be happy with ever decision, and that's just a reality that adults have to face. On this board, via email, and face to face, the majority of people I've spoken to supported the elimination of the political forum, and the majority support the IMBA direction. Gave you give me ONE, just ONE good reason to go against my personal opinion AND the viewpoint that the majority of MMBA members have expressed to me on these issues? What reason would there be for me to go against my opinion, and the seemingly majority viewpoint on these issues? Because of a vocal minority? What sort of sense does that make?

[utabintarbo]

As I said before, it was discussed. No vote was needed.

Then the action was taken without the recorded assent of the board as a whole? By whom? And by what authority. Did the board merely acquiesce to a fait accompli?

FYI, I was one of the people who didn't want to forum to be deleted. However after talking with other board members and forum moderators, it became clear (for reasons you've been told countless times) that the appropriate decision was to remove the forum.

The problem is that the reasons have never been made clear. All we get is assertions that the forum was "preoblematic", while never specifying what that actually means. Since you were in on the discussions, would you mind clarifying exactly what was "problematic".

Yes, this decision can be changed back, but unless some new evidence comes to light, or there is a significant turnover of state board members and officials, expect that decision to stay the same.

Impeaching the old "evidence" ~= new evidence. The other stuff will take a bit longer.

Uta, if the politics forum was that important and necessary for so many people, how come you are pretty much the only one who is still questioning the decision?

There are a number of others who have posted in this and other threads regarding this incident. That I have the time to answer every post seems to make it seem like it's only me. It's not only me.

Also, I am particularly energized on this matter since someone found it amusing to taunt those of us who happened to frequent that forum on April Fool's day. Despite the protestations of the jokesters (all of whom know me and know how I feel on the matter), I kinda took it personally. Just trying to channel that energy in a positive direction, y'know?