Yay Europe!

[SteveF]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/scien ... r=2&src=tp

[utabintarbo]

Why would one cheer this? Government actively working to *beep* off constituents is a good thing?

[SteveF]

Lots of reasons!

Building car infrastructure to the exclusion of all other forms of transportation is short sighted, and they're wise to try to avoid it.

I've visited livable cities/car free zones, etc, and it's a great way to live. I know it's hard to envision if you're accustomed to the way things are here. I had trouble imagining it 'til I experienced it. Cobbled courtyards. Outdoor cafes. People walking or biking, enjoying the day. Quiet, serene, civilized. You don't realize how obtrusive automobile traffic is until you spend some time away from it.

I doubt they're *beep* off the majority of their constituents--I'll bet most people are pleased with it.

[utabintarbo]

So *beep* off a minority is OK?

[SteveF]

So *beep* off a minority is OK?

Everything (even status quo) *beep* off a minority. Or even a majority.

[utabintarbo]

But the status quo is not actively working to antagonize people.

Dude, this is really indefensible.

[3d]

But the status quo is not actively working to antagonize people.

Dude, this is really indefensible.

the status quo, being gridlock, excess vehicle pollution and and dangerous streets for alternate forms of transport, would definitely work to antagonize me.

[utabintarbo]

But the status quo is not actively working to antagonize people.

Dude, this is really indefensible.

the status quo, being gridlock, excess vehicle pollution and and dangerous streets for alternate forms of transport, would definitely work to antagonize me.

Granted. Me as well. But the article is referring to futzing with the lights (for instance) to encourage gridlock, as a matter of policy, as opposed to it merely happening on its own.

[SteveF]

But the status quo is not actively working to antagonize people.

Dude, this is really indefensible.

I disagree with both your interpretation and conclusion, but you enjoy pointless arguing waaaay more than me so I'm not pursuing this further.

[utabintarbo]

I disagree with both your interpretation and conclusion, but you enjoy pointless arguing waaaay more than me so I'm not pursuing this further.

I accept your surrender.

[SteveF]

I disagree with both your interpretation and conclusion, but you enjoy pointless arguing waaaay more than me so I'm not pursuing this further.

I accept your surrender.

Yeah, don't mistake my disinterest in bickering about this as any sort of concession to your points.

Arguing for lowering automobile use in America with anyone in any context is a losing proposition anyway. Life's too short.