Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

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Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby G.Cook » August 15th, 2011, 5:22 pm

Sorry for the short notice ;
Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area Aug.16 .
Gerald E. Eddy Discovery Center
The center is located at 17030 Bush Road between Pierce and McClure roads in Chelsea. Take I-94 to exit 157 (Pierce Road) and go north to Bush Road. Take Bush Road west to the center.
For information, call (734) 475-3170 for the center .
Waterloo Rec. #(734) 475-8307
Time; 5-8pm
An informational meeting for the mountain biking community about what is in the planning stage for Waterloo Rec. Area .
Equestrians are meeting up tonight and JAJ is in the mix . Should be an interesting . :wink: :lol:
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby edhawk » August 19th, 2011, 8:35 pm

Was anyone able to attend? What happened?
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby Washington Rider » September 16th, 2011, 1:04 pm

Several members of the MMBA were invited and a few were able to attend this meeting. As a clarification, this was not an open house. It was a stakeholder meeting by invitation. An open house meeting will be coming up in the near future (I thought it would be September or October). You can follow the progress at http://www.birchlerarroyo.com/Clients/DNR-RD.htm. The presentation they gave is available on their web site.

This is the first stakeholder meeting I've attended but it sounds similar to what I've heard of Ft. Custer and Highland, where the state essentially lays out their plan and invites buy-in from the stakeholders. I'm told, by the planner, they will alter their plan if they get enough pushback or new information. However, they have essentially made up their mind and are hoping the stakeholder groups will accept it. I’ll add more to this in a bit.

As for the plan, it looks very promising. For those not familiar with what is happening, the DNR is finally making good on a long standing request to get meaningful bike trails in Waterloo. The culmination of this was hiring an outside vendor (birchlerarroyo) to develop a land management plan for Pinckney & Waterloo. Keep in mind this is a long and slow process. It will be a year or two before we can start breaking trail.

Plan Fundamentals – The plan essentially classifies different areas of the park into categories. The three largest (in terms of land and impact to the MMBA) categories are 1) Developed Recreation, 2) Backcountry and 3) Primitive. We have access to the first two, but not Primitive

Pinckney - Obviously, we have trail in Pinckney (Poto) and the plan does not infringe upon this that I could tell. My concern is the equestrians will want to take over existing trail, as they did at Ft. Custer. However, I was assured the equestrians would be required to build trail. I also asked that they be required to prove they can maintain trail before being allowed to build new trail and was assured this would be taken into consideration. My concern here is they will build a trail, let it deteriorate and then move on to other virgin ground to build new trail.

Waterloo – According to the plan, there is an existing MTB trail. Everyone acknowledges this is (my interpretation) at best, a stretch, at worst a joke. The planners acknowledge we will be starting from scratch. We will have access to the backcountry area. The primitive area is mostly wetlands. The DNR parks department does not maintain that section, the department of wildlife does. The Park Manager told me the only time he has been in this area is on personal hunting trips. In talking to JAJ he confirmed there we are not missing out on anything here. If anyone feels otherwise, please speak up.

If you look at the map, we essentially have access to the southern sections of Waterloo with connectivity to Pinckney. The planners tell me they initially had marked some of the land butting up to Pinckney as primitive but changed that in order to allow us more access points from Pinckney into Waterloo. Apparently it is a mix of low wetlands with some high ground. The high ground was marked backcountry so that we would have access.

Summary – Overall, I am extremely pleased with what has been laid out. The DNR understands what we bring to the table in terms of trail building & maintenance which translates into more user groups (hikers included) having access to the park through the efforts of the MMBA. Therefore, in my humble opinion, they have designed the plan with plenty of opportunities for us to build meaningful trail. I’m sure there are more areas to cover but I didn’t want to make this post a mile long. Feel free to email or call me if you have questions or concerns.

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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby G.Cook » September 16th, 2011, 7:33 pm

To clarify my posting , I was told the meeting was open house by the Pinckney Rec. land mgr. and considering the amount of DNR staffers standing around waiting to talk with anybody it didn't seem all that exclusive .
Pinckney - Obviously, we have trail in Pinckney (Poto) and the plan does not infringe upon this that I could tell. My concern is the equestrians will want to take over existing trail, as they did at Ft. Custer. However, I was assured the equestrians would be required to build trail. I also asked that they be required to prove they can maintain trail before being allowed to build new trail and was assured this would be taken into consideration. My concern here is they will build a trail, let it deteriorate and then move on to other virgin ground to build new trail.

Considering that the previous Pinckney Rec. land mgr. spent over $100,000 building horse trail (some time ago) coming off of and around the Lakeland Trail and that the Lakeland Trail , supposedly a multiuse trail and is now nothing more then a bridle path , it would seem that they already have what they want or need at this point .
When they had there 700 horse ride on Waterloo hiking trails they also had a request to use the Blind Lk. camp ground as a staging area . Turned away for now but you can see the intent of the Waterloo horse folk . Pinckney equestrians want nothing to do with all of the above but I'm sure they would be willing to let the Waterloo equestrians fight that battle .
Personally I think the fix is in and we are screwed . Just a gut feeling based on what I've seen thus far. I did not come away from that meeting with the good vibe that was supposedly going down. And *beep* yeah , I'm a cynical old *beep* . Maybe it's my 25 years working for the state , not sure. For all his good intentions to keep equestrians from gaining anymore ground at Pinckney , I think the Pinckney land mgr is going to get steam rolled by Lansing .
First pile of horse *beep* I see past M-52 and I'm done with Pinckney Rec.
Have Mcleod , will travel .
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby deezler » September 18th, 2011, 11:00 pm

Hmmm. So G Cook, you are essentially predicting that the Potawatomi will be opened to horse riding? Well it sure as heck won't go down without a fight from the MTB community. Sounding pretty negative here.

Meanwhile Washington Rider giving us a pretty rosy report of the potential for a kickass new trail system at Waterloo! Heck yes, let's do this. Please let us know how we can support the creation of new singletrack on this prime piece of land. With all that we know about sustainable trail building now, this should be done right. I have to imagine there is enough land here for a 20+ mile trail network, too.
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby Di_bear » September 19th, 2011, 7:25 am

deezler wrote:Hmmm. So G Cook, you are essentially predicting that the Potawatomi will be opened to horse riding? Well it sure as heck won't go down without a fight from the MTB community. Sounding pretty negative here.


This goes against current Michigan law (you know, the horse legislation that backfired on the equestrians when we got involved).

We can speculate all we want, but I'm confident in our statewide advocacy folks. As of yet, I'm not too worried about what will happen in Lansing.
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby deezler » September 19th, 2011, 8:27 am

I don't understand what you are really saying here. That opening the trail to horses goes against Michigan law, or that MTB'ers putting up a fight does?

I am similarly confident that this amazing trail can be protected from horses. Just no way the running / hiking / biking community will let that happen.
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby Di_bear » September 19th, 2011, 12:04 pm

In general, equestrians are not allowed on trails in state parks and recreation areas, but they are allowed access to state forest trails. I know that some of the land managers are slow to implement this policy, and I do not wish them to remove equestrian access where there are bridle trails in parks and recreation areas, but the law is in our favor where the Poto is concerned, and I believe this law has also influenced certain land managers to address mountain bike/equestrians issues in other places.

Note: I favored brevity in this post, but you can search the forum (upper right hand corner of the page) to learn more about the "horse bill."
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby Washington Rider » September 22nd, 2011, 8:34 pm

Received this today:

DNR Public Open House
Review and discussion of Phase 1
Draft General Management Plan

The Department of Natural Resources is in the process of developing a General Management Plan for Pinckney & Waterloo Recreation Areas. These plans will outline 20-year goals in the form of Management Zones, which will guide the DNR in the management of park resources and the visitor experience.
The public is invited to a meeting on Thursday, October 13, 2011 from 4:00-8:00 p.m., where the DNR will share its thoughts on the Draft General Management Plan and welcomes your input.

Thursday, October 13, 2011
4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
Eddy Discovery Center
17030 Bush Road
Chelsea, MI
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby jajones » October 17th, 2011, 10:27 am

Anyone have a line on what happened at the meeting last week? I was out of town.
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Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby Bento » October 29th, 2011, 10:13 am

I've been keeping my eye on this thread. No recent updates :-(

I went to the website mentioned above:
http://www.birchlerarroyo.com/Clients/DNR-RD.htm

Look on the left side and see the links for Pinckney and Waterloo. Click on those links:

http://www.birchlerarroyo.com/Clients/MDNR/Pinckney-Waterloo/Pinckney%20Survey%20101311.pdf

And

http://www.birchlerarroyo.com/Clients/MDNR/Pinckney-Waterloo/waterloo%20Survey%20101311.pdf

Interesting no wording with "mountain biking" in the "Current Statement of Significance are Summarized Below:" section for the Waterloo Workshop Input Document. Despite there being a "trail" at Waterloo. It is mentioned for Pinckney. Lots of horse references in the Waterloo doc.

The deadline for submitting the Workshop Input Document is October 31st, TOMORROW!!

Send an email with the completed PDF attached to Jill Bahm
jbahm at birchlerarroyo dot com


To be clear, I am not sure who can submit a completed form. I would think the "MMBA representative" at the meetings to date, would have submitted the completed forms. But it might not hurt to voice YOUR opinion too.
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Re: Open House at Waterloo Rec. Area

Postby scat silvurz » October 30th, 2011, 11:17 am

There is a line item on the forms that say:

Pinckney Recreation Area hosts a great diversity of users – hunters, birders, trail runners, geo-cachers, equestrians, hikers, mountain bikers,
fishermen/women.
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